Cheri Jo Bates Evidence Analysis

Zodiac Revisited contributor Morf13 has provided the following documents which he obtained earlier this year. The documents pertain to mitochondrial DNA and hair analysis done on evidence from the Cheri Jo Bates murder. In particular, it was done at the request of the Riverside Police Department in an attempt to incriminate their prime suspect. Unfortunately, for them, it ended up clearing him. The analysis itself was performed between 1999 and 2000. The documents are interesting for numerous reasons, not the least of which are the significant details they provide regarding the physical evidence that was used to generate the mitochondrial DNA profile.

Have a look, and thanks to Morf13 for sharing.

 

 

Michael Cole

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101 Comments on "Cheri Jo Bates Evidence Analysis"

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morf13
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morf13
4 years 6 months ago

Despite the DNA results here ruling their suspect out as the source of the DNA from the Bates crime scene, Riverside PD REFUSES to let go of him as a suspect, and in my opinion, has stubbornly and recklessly jeopardized the chances of Cheri’s case ever being solved. In addition, they seem to want to distance themselves from and possibility of Zodiac being involved in her case, despite the fact that State writing expert and primary Zodiac document examiner, Sherwood Morrill, being of the opinion that Zodiac was indeed the writer of letters received in the Bates case. Furthermore,there ARE some files in the FBI reports that seem to indicate there was a comparison made between Bates case prints & Zodiac case prints, BUT, there is no mention of the results which seems a bit curious. I wonder if there is a match that authorities are keeping to themselves. Also, there has been extensive discussions on various forums and sites, in which people have noted some common spelling errors,etc between the Bates ‘confession letter’, and Zodiac’s writing. Riverside felt that the details in the confession letter were known only by the killer, so in my mind, this doesnt do ANYTHING to rule Zodiac out as possibly being Cheri’s killer. Personally, I tend to think Cheri’s killer was likely around her age. The evidence suggests that she went off to a dimly lighted area for some time with her killer before she was attacked. I dont think she would have went off with a stranger, and I dont think she would have went off with a guy that was alot older then her. I think she felt at ease with and likely knew her killer, and didnt feel unsafe going with him, and this suggests a person that was around her age, possibly a fellow Ramona HS graduate or RCC student. If you have read the Zodiac police reports for the Berryessa attack, you will know that surviving victim Bryan Hartnell described Zodiac’s voice as being likely in his 20’s, and Officer Slaight who took the call after the attack, described Zodiac’s voice as sounding “in his early 20’s”. Both Hartnell’s and Slaight’s descriptions of Zodiac’s voice, puts Zodiac in the same age group as people that Cheri would have known or associated with in Riverside back in 1966. I have looked one by one at every senior that graduated with Cheri from Ramona HS in 1966, and found one guy that moved to Napa in 1968 or so, and another who moved to Vallejo living on Webb St up until 1974(when the last Z letter was mailed), when he moved back down to Riverside. More information and research is required for these 2 men in my opinion.

jeckyl
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jeckyl
4 years 6 months ago

I agree with most of what you have to say regarding Cheri and if you are correct the trail begins with her murder. I have looked at Cheri graduating class but haven’t gone into your detail. It would seem her murderer was either a classmate or someone who lived in the neighborhood. I am interested in writing about Cheri as a person and not just as a murder victum, do you have any contacts that could give me some insight as to who Cheri was in real life. Additionally I would be interested in knowing who were the two classmates of Cheri’s that you mentioned.

Ron Tressler
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Ron Tressler
4 years 4 months ago

Agreeing with you, when the Police or Sheriff get “stuck” on one suspect, view is limited. The true killer(s) of Cheri Jo Bates should be arrested without prejudice, even when the cover-up artist used to date a billionaire, the killer is a man who will kill again, who has encouraged a team of killers. The killer of Cheri Jo Bates had the wounds visible and the haircut that was done to cover up the scalp removed was obvious. The killer(s) have continued to murder witnesses because the arrest was somehow bullied out the of law’s hands. The case was allowed to go “political” and be in conjunction with political events, so the arrest was shut down. We must commend the California Law enforcement community, howevever, for growing through the trends that hinder law, trends of politics, big money, big oil, big actors and big writers, and big thugs who killed Cheri Jo Bates and think that killing is sport. This group, and there was and is a group, promoted fear and they are like the Wizzard of OZ with bullying as their only curtain. They recently murdered some elderly people and are trying to murder the witnesses on that. They kill their own family and friends to keep the cover up game going. The man with the scar had a chance to recover from violence, and maybe he still does. Maybe if he will decide to walk in and turn himself and his accomplice older sister in he could teach us why the case was so hindered. Wouldn’t he be safer with the law around him (and her) allowed to tell the truth of who trained them to kill and why? Their story affects the times and we could learn from them, if they realized we want to hear the “why”. The politics that shut down this case were many, the Kennedy evidence transfer where a locker number nine was empty and the evidence to archives of JFK artifacts was not allowed to take place. Exact same time period as the Cheri Jo murder and in Riverside. Bully political teams on all sides of this case. Now, we have lost out on learning because the case has gone unarrested. The Riverside Police have enough to go at the warrants and arrest, they can even find some answers without warrant. The community must stand with the Riverside PD and get the arrest for a safer California. Believe me, Detective Shumway, the former and retired detective on this case gave his all to working the case and making the pleas for confessions and he got them. His work is effectual and we will get this case. It is the dynamic of the killers that must be broken, the kill together buddy club of the past. When the killers murdered their own mom, a world war II nurse, enough was enough. These people are already outed, it is just a matter of time…..Some say the killer approached Cheri Jo asking for the time. The witness was asked for the time, and the case is closer to arrest for that harassment the witness took. Pray hard. Let’s get this arrest.

tw
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tw
3 years 7 months ago

My thoughts are that Z was a coworker or associate of Paul Stine’s and that he was very jealous of Paul’s reported ambitions, likeability, ability to get along with others and of Paul’s soon to be awarded Master’s degree in Business. Basically, a sociopath who lacked all the things that Paul had going for him. I would expect a failed insurance agent, perhaps with Allstate Insurance, who attended Allstate’s new agent programs in southern Cal in the 1960s and who had also served in Air Force and pulled duty in England. Would look for person with ambidexterity, wore military-issued eye glasses occasionally and was older than Paul by at least ten years. Someone who was probably spoken to during initial investigation but passed by. Expect that the other victims were part of a plan to mask the murder’s association with Paul. That and the murder’s need to feel superior to police by rubbing their noses in their inability to identify him tells me that Z was a wannabe cop who may have served as a sky cop (security police) in the Air Force but couldn’t get hired by civilian police departments. Would look at somebody who couldn’t cut it in the insurance field either and probably left that arena shortly after PS was killed. Z probably worked as a security police for malls or stores or protecting credit card blanks for a credit card company in SF. Somebody who lived in Pleasanton (follow the southern radian on the Mt. Diablo letter. Probably owned wingwalkers boots size 10 but he probably bought them smaller with the idea to stuff his size 11 plus feet in them and was probably slimmer that suspect was reported (could have worn stomach padding or a bullet proof vest under clothing.) Look also for a man who had associations or distributed the Berkeley Barb, the SF Oracle, and the publishing company in Palo Alto that printed The Whole Earth Catalog and who may have had car newspaper routes. Someone who grew up in Riverside/Ontario in the 30s along with Joseph Bates but had a crush on Cheri’s mother. Hence to reference to “your daughters” in the Bates letter. Someone who eventually (after serving in military) settled in Bay Area.

jeckyl51
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jeckyl51
3 years 7 months ago

Interesting, but the Bates moved to Riverside in 1959, they came from Nebraska, sort of kills that part of the theory.

jeckyl51
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jeckyl51
3 years 7 months ago

Sorry, that would have been 1957

morf13
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morf13
4 years 6 months ago

@ Jeckyl, the only people that would really know Cheri would have been her friends & Family, and they are pretty tight lipped, I guess they don’t want to open old wounds.

morf13
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morf13
4 years 6 months ago

@Mike Cole…I have to disagree with you on Cheri’s killer not knowing her. She apparently walked off with her killer into a dimly lit area, and it appears that she spent quite a bit of time with him over in the shadows before she was attacked. I just cant see an 18 year old college girl walking into a dark area with somebody she doesnt know, and spending time with him. I think she felt comfortable enough with him and knew him enough that she didnt think there was anything to worry about, and again because she was 18, and most 18 year olds wouldn’t be hanging out with older men, I tend to think that her killer was around her age, and likely a schoolmate, maybe her age or a year or two older. It truly is a shame that RPD has just written this off as no relation to the Zodiac case, they are completely ignoring Sherwood Morrill’s opinion that the Bates case letters were written by Zodiac. So how the police could simply turn a blind eye to that is rediculous. According to some sketchy details, I am pretty sure that RPD thinks that the reason their favorite suspect’s DNA didnt match the DNA from under Cheri’s nails, is because their POI had help when he killed Cheri, and that the DNA belongs to this 2nd man. I really dont believe there was a 2nd man that attacked Cheri, but RPD does. In addition, I have an FBI memo that requested the FBI compare Bates case prints to Zodiac case prints, but I dont have any memo that shows the results. I wonder if the prints DID match, and police are keeping it a secret, or if they did not match, and that’s why RPD is so sure Zodiac wasnt involved in Cheri’s case. We might not ever know. In the meantime, the two individuals that graduated with Cheri, and then wound up living in Vallejo & Napa during the Z murders, are of major interes to me.

G Gluckman
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4 years 5 months ago

Hi Mike,

I am interested in your statement that “[you] believe crime scene locations and characteristics were the primary factors which drove the killer to select his victims.”

In the course of pursuing my theories, I have arrived at the same conclusion, at least as far as the Paul Stine murder and the Kathleen Johns kidnapping are concerned. (And I am curious about others.)

That said, I strongly suspect we have come to the same conclusion for very different reasons, and with very different results. Still, the similarity of principle (for lack of a better term) piques my curiousity.

Would you mind expanding on how you see this “principle” being applied?

Many thanks,

G

JIMB3468
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JIMB3468
4 years 30 days ago

It’s just so hard for me to imagine that 64 students in the library and no one notices Cheri Jo having trouble with her car in the parking lot ? How close did she park to the entrance,,,most women knowing it will be dark when they leave will park as close to the entrance as possible ? But what do I know !

G Gluckman
Guest
4 years 5 months ago

Hi Mike,

Let me swish that around a bit…

The killer starts out with an unsophisticated, unrefined, instinctive, predator’s sense of location. This develops into a very pragmatic, premeditated methodology.

Then one day, he begins to operate on a new level: he takes on the persona of the Zodiac, and begins to use location in an even newer way–perhaps as a blend of both pragmatica and enigmatica.

I am not sure if this in any way summarizes your thinking, and I do not intend to press you on the matter, since you have indicated this is not the appropriate venue (or should I say, location).

Whichever way you are going with your theory, I am eager to hear more.

G

G Gluckman
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4 years 5 months ago

I will wait patiently…

jeckyl
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jeckyl
4 years 4 months ago

Does anyone have a map depicting the murder scene, with the location of her car, her body and the orientations? Seems that there is not much information other than verbal descriptions. I know the area was renovated 40 years ago, but there must be clues in that information. From what I am able to piece together, her body was found between the two houses on Terracina, facing south, her car was parked down the street from the library on Terracina. I think a map would make it easier to come to realistic conclusions. For instance if what I surmise is correct she was heading away from the library, car, and friends, therefore she must have been in the company of someone she knew. The scuffle happened where her body was discovered which appears to be 50 to 75 feet down the alley. One thing that perplexed me is that her keys are in the car. Most people have their car and house key on the same key chain, so why are her keys in the car. It is information like this that I gleaned from the web that is suspect. Does anyone have definitive’s?

jeckyl
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jeckyl
4 years 4 months ago

Just a thought regarding the time of the murder. Is it plausable, that the murder did take place between 9 and 9:30 PM, remember that the day before was the switch from daylight saving time. It was getting dark at 6PM in riverside and would have been night at 9PM. The odds that Cheri would have spent an hour or more trying to repair her car or talking to someone, even someone she knew, seem not to be her style. I certainly wouldn’t waste time, but would want to solve the problem either by getting to a phone to call a relative or a repair shop. Would be interesating to know if there were any calls placed to the Bates residence during that time period. Therefore it is possible that the witnesses where mistaken with their times, I have been wrong a day after the time change. If they were basing their time on the outdoor conditions it would seem to be 10:30 when it was really 9:30, just a thought.

jeckyl
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jeckyl
4 years 4 months ago

We know that Cheri was at home before 5:30 PM and obviously had eaten dinner around this time or before. According to the autopsy report, the contents of her stomach indicated that she had eaten between 2 and 4 hours before death. Since all indications are the she was at the library from 6 to 9PM the time of death would have been between 9 and 9:30PM.

jeckyl
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jeckyl
4 years 4 months ago

Noted, but the screams are circumstantial, they were not definitive enough for calls to have been made to police, they must have been heard at a distance since the area was being renovated, which opens up a larger area of emanation. If we discount the screams we will have solved the time puzzle. It is also possible that someone, a younger person, came upon the body and reacted by screaming, and not wanting to get involved did not call police. Just a thought given that there seems to be an aloofness in Riverside. Also the area that the college was in was not affluent and tended to be lower class which would fit with a persons non involvement and a tendency to steer clear of police. I grew up in such an environment and know first hand how people react.

If Cheri did not leave at closing, how do you explain the person who saw someone in the shadows in the alley and exchanged a greeting, during that time period?

Could the killer have kept her in the alley for any amount of time with a knife, I’m thinking not, a gun, yes, but not a knife. Then again he could have had a gun but used the knife for the murder. Here again we run into the possibility of someone seeing them in the alley, while leaving the library. For me, at least, it makes sense that the killer had minimal time with Cheri to complete his deed. The police commented, due to crime scene analysis, that it appeared to be a crime of passion, the killer might have planned to kill her but hoped she would come to her senses and have a relationship with him. Twisted thinking, but so is murder. There is a psychological profile that fits such an individual. The only way that a jilted, pseudo suitor, which the perpetrator appears to be, to get control is through death.

I am not convinced that this is the Zodiac. The Zodiac used opportunity to commit his crimes, he did not disable random vehicles. He disabled the Katherine John’s vehicle with the victims knowledge, or should we say unknowing consent. Of course, he could have randomly picked Cheri and followed her into the parking spot, disabled her vehicle and waited for her return. But we need to remember, that from all accounts Cheri was not the type of person to go anywhere with strangers. Which leads us to the killer being someone she knew, which also leads, if we believe that this was the Zodiac, someone from Riverside.

We all know, as did Cheri that her only hope of getting away , if what you say happened, would have been to take an opportune time and run. Even if the killer had a gun, which there is no evidence, it is very difficult to hit any one by drawing and firing, (former military) it is more luck than skill with not aimed shots. You have to ask the question, would the killer have chanced being discovered by firing. I still think that a variation of Occums Razor is the way to approach this crime.

I think we all get carried away with the possibilities and perceptions and wander too far from the facts.

jeckyl
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jeckyl
4 years 3 months ago

Agreed, I think that discussing ideas is beneficial, it is not about who has the better idea, it is about assisting in some way by churning up reasonable possibilities.
It has bothered me regarding the screams, the time frame just doesn’t match the difinitive forensics. The autopsy reported that Cheri had eated between 2 – 4 hours preceeding death. We know that she died within minutes of being attacked. Mr. Bates returned home at 5:30PM and found the note from Cheri regarding going to the Library. Therefore, Cheri had eated before 5:30 which would put the time of death at 9:30PM at the latest. Exploring this a little further, is it possible that the killer beat Cheri senseless at 9:30PM and returned after 10PM to finish the job by sliting her throat. Is it possible her body went into shock after the beating and digestion stopped which would explain the stomach contents but not the screams, since in this scenerio she wouldn’t have been conscious to scream. So it seems we are back at the beginning, either the autopsy is flawed or the screams are not connected to the case.

Regarding the person in the alley, I saw this on a website which I am trying to find, I suppose it can be discounted.

Whether or not we admit the screams, the old car starting, or even the watch they are all circumstantial. the screams and car could possibly be explained by other circumstances, and unless the killer is found the watch also could be circumstantial, it wasn’t an expensive item and it was torn where most leather watch bands fail. It is possible someone else owned the watch and had nothing to do with the crime. There are stories about Barnett and a friend returning to the scene later that evening to look for the watch, but this story was reported after the facts were know and I find it difficult to believe that anyone returning to the scene with a flashlight, as it was reported, would not have found the watch. It would seem that we could discount that jailhouse confession regarding looking for the watch and put the watch into a collaberating role after the killer is found.

Like a said before the key is with her friends, someone knows something, most likely the police also know from a friends testimony that is why they are fixated with the one suspect.

jeckyl
Guest
jeckyl
4 years 3 months ago

The FBI files are revealing, if we look at the first file the blocked out area pertaining to the suspect indicates 18 or 19 character spaces. Additionally, we can deduce that the first name (11) is longer than the last (7), they would not abreviate the name at the end of a line. We can base this on the fact that Cheri Jo Bates is configured this way and not as Bates, Cheri Jo, which would change the letter count. If we assume that this person was in Cheri’s class then we can narrow down the number of persons who could fit. C. W. seems to fit the configuration, additionally there does not seem to be a web presence for C.W. which would fit if he was out of the country.

JIMB3468
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JIMB3468
4 years 30 days ago

Anyway , my close friend that is a retired Police Detective (Chicago PD, Homicide) feels this case is very strange considering the little amount of evidence released…some thing is terribly wrong there! He also feels the Zodiac is not the killer of Cheri Jo Bates ! smells like a cover up has taking place for some reason !

jeckyl51
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jeckyl51
4 years 28 days ago

Very interesting, a cover-up, the obvious reasons are that the killer was either known to someone or was actually someone high up in the police department, wealthy member of the local society or a politician. Secrets can be difficult to keep, so that compartmentalizing them is the most efficient way to keep them secret. Therefore, someone with appreciably power would need to steer the investigation without the detectives on the case realizing the cover-up. That would seem to explain the Riverside Police fixating on the Barnett character. Unfortunately for those covering up they did not realize in 1966 that DNA could eventually reveal their ruse. It must also be noted that the Prosecutor felt that there was not enough evidence to bring Barnett to trial. Could this be that the prosecutor realized that a trial without enough evidence would be futile or was it because he knew the killer or suspected the real killer and did not want to self incriminate himself if something went wrong in the future. Were there any clues in Cheri diary, probably not, since the detectives would have been lead to the killer and from all accounts the detectives were stymied? Now if we take the tact that the detectives were in on the cover-up that would pull in the prosecutor, Chief of Police and other individuals in city government. This would not have seemed to be possible, especially after so many years, someone would have talked. Then again, if it is a cover-up there might be other complications. Rigged elections, disappearances, potential witness incarcerations or worse. Barnett’s friend who supposedly made a jailhouse confession implicating Barnett might have been influenced by the prosecutor or someone in the police department to make the confession lending credence to the Barnett involvement. Barnett supposedly moved to Guam, was this in reaction to being hounded by police. Getting the DNA sample when he returned to California for a visit in 1999 would also fit into the cover-up idea, the detectives were not in on the cover-up so they were just following leads not knowing that Barnett was not the murder. Gets pretty convoluted but possible, somebody knows the murderer.

JIMB3468
Guest
JIMB3468
4 years 30 days ago

Also, can anybody tell me if the picture of Cheri Jo in the library,was taken on the day she was mudered ? Who took the picture?…and was she with some female friends as stated on one web site…did they leave together ? how far or close from the entrance to the library was she parked? (most women will park close to any entrance,especially if they know they will be leaving after dark ) ! Lots of unanswered questions here for me.. What happened to that young lady really has bothered me for along time ! I tried to get in touch with Bill Kurtis..(Cold Case Files)..and have not rceived a reply as of yet. This case needs to be told Nation wide !!!!!!!!

jeckyl51
Guest
jeckyl51
4 years 27 days ago

Agreed, it probably wouldn’t hurt to have some addition exposure but Bill Kurtis is an actor, you need to contact the writers of that show. Since those shows are purchased it might take some detective work to find the writers.

Alex Lewis
Guest
4 years 29 days ago

A clue can be found as to weather Z was responsible for Bates murder in his letters. Zodiac refered to his victims as ‘Slaves for the afterlife’. In Zodiac’s Nov 9th, 1969 letter, he ends it with ‘To prove i am the Zodiac, ask the Vallejo cop about my gun scope i used to start my collecting of slaves’. Here Zodiac is refering to his Lake Herman Rd murders. So, Zodiac is saying, in plain English, that his first murder were the ones at Lake Herman. Then, in early to mid 1971, Paul Averly writes an article in the Chronicle newpaper that accuses Zodiac of possibly being responsible for Bates murder. Then, in March, 1971 Zodiac writes “I do have to give them credit for stubmling my riverside activity”. So Zodiac only took credit for Bates murder, after Averly had wrote an article that cast suspicion on Z being involved. 16 Months prior to that, he had written a letter claiming that Betty Lou and David Faraday was when he ‘Started collecting of slaves for the afterlife), meaning started his murderous campaign. This doesn’t conclusively rule Z out as having been Bates murderer, but it does, in my opinion, cast serious doubt on his being involved.

Jorge
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Jorge
3 years 26 days ago

This is because all the San Francisco murders were about this little psychotic fantasy he had created. The murder of Cheri Jo Bates was personal.

Alex Lewis
Guest
4 years 28 days ago

This case need only look at how the capture of The Green River Killer, Gary Ridgway, finally came. Green River Case (GRC) was almost identical in the way the case went, what happened, and why. GR Killer murdered dozzens of women between 1982 and 84. A ‘Green River Task Force’ was created to work full time on catching the culprate. But after 1984, the murders suddenly stopped. As time went on the task force reduced in number, untill it was officially disbanded. Detective David Reichert could never forget pulling body after body out of the river, and was never content with the case resting on the ‘Cold Case’ shelf. 20 years later, Reichert was promoted to Sheriff, a position that would allow him to re-open any case within his jurisdiction that be unsolved. On the day he was sworn in as Sheriff, the first task he peformed as Sheriff, was to re-open the GRC without delay and ordered that every piece of Scientific Evidence be re-tested, and all DNA found on 4 of the victims be compared for consistancy to see if the DNA on all four victims comes from one indavidual, and the test results were positive match, the same man had been with all four women shortly before the died. Then Reinchert fed the DNA into the DNA Data-Base and hit ‘Search’. The computer took the DNA it had been fed, and checked it against all the profiles it had stored of known offenders. The next words to appear on the screen were ‘Match Found: Mr Gary Leon Ridgway’, and the rest is history. It took a determined man 21 years and a promotion before this case was solved. Gary Ridgway was suspected and interviewed in 1984 by police, but no evidence came to light to charge him. Then, in 1987, Ridgway was arrested for soliciting a prostitute, a crime for wich his DNA was taken, along with a hair and finger print sample. The DNA would sit in the evidence room from 1987 untill 2001, when Reinchert re-opened the case and used todays technology to go back and test old evidence. My point is this, it took 1 man and his determination, born out of compassion and empathy for the countless women he had to pull out of the river 20 years before, to re-open this case, and solve it straight away. The evidence to capture Ridgway had been there for 14 years, silently waiting for someone to have just one more look. It turns out that Ridgway met and settled down in 1985, mayying her 3 years later in 1988. This seems to be the likely cause for the suddent disappearence of the Green River Killer, coupled with police questioning him in 1984 also. I’ll finish by para-phrasing what Sheriff Reinhert said regarding the GRC, ‘To other colleagues on the Task Force, catching this man was just a job. They would go home at night and leave this case at the office. I wished i could also have done that, but i went home with this case, i woke up 2, 3, 4 am pondering over something we may have missed. Finding him consumed me to the point of obsession. My family asked me to walk away and let it go, it was over. They didn’t pull body after nude body out of the river. They didn’t have to smell the stench of decaying flesh. They didn’t see the faces of these dozens of yong and middle aged women as they were placed in a body bag. They didn’t see how they had been discarded like some piece of meat. I swore to thoes girls ipulled from that river, i would do my best to catch this man, and that i intended to do.’

JIM3468
Guest
JIM3468
3 years 10 months ago

Just another thought..who can be sure that the hair sample taken from cher jo bates,(at the crime scene found in her hand), was the same one tested 32 years later ?

jeckyl51
Guest
jeckyl51
3 years 9 months ago

Yes, since there is proof the hair is the same we must assume that the police in Riverside followed procedure and are able to link the hair to the crime scene. I guess it is possible that if we assume the hair is from the time of the murder it could be from an accomplice. There were footprints at the scene that matched a military type shoe, boomdockers, I suppose it is possible that the perps wore the same size shoe. The easiest explaination is that there was one perp whose hair was recovered. The prime suspect might be a dead end after all. It has always seemed questionable that this perp committed this crime then stopped killing. If it was a rage killing as the police believe then this person probably has a history of violence toward women, not necessarily murder. Therefore a search of domestic violence cases in the area in the years after the murder might be fruitful. The letter a month later does point to someone disturbed, since this person did not act on his threats we might assume he died, left the area, became a priest, or became an abuser. I guess a search of Cheri classmates might reveal some leads. I am also assuming that the police in Riverside have already investigated these possibilities. It would be helpful to know what evidence exists and what leads were followed.

Dr. Lawrence D'Antonio
Guest
Dr. Lawrence D'Antonio
3 years 8 months ago

Too all, Many have wondered what happened to me, but I (and my work) have not disappeared. Before you push the delete button Morf, keep in mind that I have picked you. I would recommend more attention to the actual physical evidence of the Cheri Jo Bates case including the letters. The greatest obstruction to the solving of this case has been removed and it will be solved. There is very exciting developements in the case occurring now. The author of the confession letter has been established and there is a new suspect. Probable cause for further investigation has been established. The ball is in your court Morf. Do you punt or run with it? DrD

JIM3468
Guest
3 years 7 months ago

JECKYL..
Is anyone aware of the sick cop (Riverside, PD), that was arrested for child molestation..He was the same cop that used to take Cheri Jo’s diary home every night..was he possibly investigated for her murder ?

BATMAN
Guest
BATMAN
3 years 7 months ago

Does anyone know what Ross Sullivan looked like? He was the fat smelly nerd that worked in the library. He did not come back for about one week after her murder. He is in the book that the RIVERSIDE COMMUNITY COLLEGE puts out once a year in 1966…anyone know if there is a pic of him?????

Sophia
Guest
Sophia
3 years 7 months ago

I havn’t read a huge amount on the Zodiac as of yet, however I noticed ‘confession’ letter for the murder of Cheri Jo Bates possibly penned by the Zodiac.. It seems like it would have been someone who knew her as he makes reference to the fact that he was ‘MAKING HER PAY FOR THE BRUSH OFFS THAT SHE HAD GIVEN ME DURING THE YEARS PRIOR’. If so, then is it a possibility that her killer went to her high school? Also noticed that the carving found on the desk at Riverside City College was signed ‘rh’, could this stand for Ramona High the high school that Cheri attended? And was Cheri Brunette with blue eyes, as in the ‘confession’ it states ‘OR MAYBE SHE WILL BE THE SHAPELY BLUE EYED BROWNETT THAT SAID NO WHEN I ASKED HER FOR A DATE IN HIGH SCHOOL.’
Just a few thoughts I had 🙂

Sophia
Guest
Sophia
3 years 7 months ago

So I found a copy of a 1964 Ramona High Year book online, and coincidentally there was a symbol in an illustration like the one the Zodiac used to sign his letters with… what does this symbol even mean?

Gerald Katz
Guest
Gerald Katz
3 years 1 month ago

I was wondering if anyone had yet figured out who killed Cheri Jo Bates and others and was referred to as the Zodiac killer. Well a few have made assumptions but the are looking at a few documents and trying to guess based on what they have read. I see a number of people still want to know more. I went to Ramona High and graduated in 1964. Cheri Jo was a sophomore when I was a senior and was close to Bonnie Bartlett who was dating and later married Tim Sullivan, who was one of my best friends. I later met Tim’s brother Ross. Ross was in his mid 20s and was very big, well over 6 feet tall and more than 250 pounds. He could be depressed or very agitated. I once dated the same girl, Barbara Renolds, he liked and when he found out and threatened me, I was more scared than I have ever been of someone else. He was one of the people who were part of the RCC environment and we crossed paths occasionally but has many mutual friends. I distinctly remember the time she was murdered. It was right around the time I was supposed to be drafted but an incredibly beautiful peace loving hippy, named Noelle Jette, was making out with me all trough the night so I missed my induction. Ross had had often hung out at Noelle’s and there were some sheep skins hanging up outside her home. Noel said that at some time earlier Ross had killed, butchered and killed some sheep. This was very unusual for anyone we knew to kill much less butcher an animal. I heard that the police had come by Noelle’s seen the skins and asked questions about Ross. Apparently they did not think that this was suspicious. Me and many friends thought it might be Ross but it was only a conjecture. Several years later I saw Tim who came down from Canada where he and Bonnie had moved during the Viet Nam war. Tim told me that he was sure his brother Ross was the Zodiac killer. Ross was a writer, poet and painter but also a psychotic whose parents had died when he was in his teens and was extremely passionate, love starved, jealous and resentful. He left Riverside after Cheri Jo Bates was killed and moved to Northern California where he would alternately be committed to mental hospitals and be released. He resided at times in San Francisco and Santa Cruz. Tim told me that Ross had died, and a few years later I heard that Tim had also passed away from cancer. I do not know if any of the people involved in these events are still alive, so I thought I would tell what I knew about the tragic events nearly 50 years ago.

BATMAN
Guest
BATMAN
3 years 1 month ago

GERALD KATZ….Thanks for the Ross info…wondering…did he have dark hair or light hair? Did he have any other brothers beside Tim? Did Tim also move to Northern California at any time? I am interested who John Sullivan was in connection with Ross. He found Ross dead. The Zodiac killer was supposed to be short…like 5’8″ although people were confused about how tall he was. Did Tim also attend Riverside college? Cheri Jo Bates murder is connected by that desk. Did Ross come out of Patton Hospital? He has been possibly framed for the Bates murder. That murder was done with a small bad knife that may have been used as a last resort. That person did not come to that area with murder on their mind.

BATMAN
Guest
BATMAN
3 years 1 month ago

I cannot verify any of the names of Bartlett or Tim Sullivan through Ramona High School. I would like to know what Donna’s last name was that worked at Riverside Bank and if you knew Stephanie. These two were the last people that had contact with Cheri. The bizarre behavior of her father on that day is the reason no one was arrested. Did Ross have any friends? What do you mean by painter…like in canvas or bedrooms???? Did you know Robert Barnett? THANK YOU to anyone with any info

BATMAN
Guest
BATMAN
3 years 1 month ago

You have confirmed that Ross kept going in and out of mental institutes…what for?
Do you know if he was arrested? Last question on this topic…since you knew John…is he still alive? I have a cousin that knew a John Sullivan that was in operas and stage plays in Northern Calif. Thanks to anyone out there.

JIM3468
Guest
3 years 1 month ago

Interesting.. I have a hard time beleiving a man 6 2 250 would have to use a tiny knife to silence Cheri Jo ! I guess it’s possible..did this Ross have a habit of carrying knives with him ?

Gerald Katz
Guest
Gerald Katz
3 years 1 month ago

John Sullivan graduated from Ramona in 1963. He was Tim’s older brother. Ross was older still didn’t meet him till after high school.

BATMAN
Guest
BATMAN
3 years 1 month ago

When did Tim leave Riverside? Did he go to the northern part of the state or directly to Canada? Did you know their father? Did you know Stephanie or her boyfriend?

Gerald Katz
Guest
Gerald Katz
3 years 1 month ago

It was very long ago. I didn’t know the other people mentioned. Ross did art painting.

Mike Morford
Guest
3 years 1 month ago

This Ross Sullivan stuff has always been pretty interesting. Multiple people hae tried unsuccessfully to get a photo of Ross. I kvae some info on Ross,and a little on his Family, but not a whole lot. Definitely, alot of what the Librarians mentioned, was indeed true of Ross

BATMAN
Guest
BATMAN
3 years 1 month ago

Any info on Timothy and John Sullivan from anyone? Another poster has stated these were the brothers of Ross. Apparently they were in Riverside in the 1960’s. THANK YOU

Mike Morford
Guest
3 years 1 day ago

Finally, there is a photo of Ross, and he is almost a dead ringer for the Zodiac sketch. More on him here- http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?t=95&p=1291

BATMAN
Guest
BATMAN
3 years 1 day ago

I can’t see anything. File does not exist…please try again. There would be no reason not to have a photo published on him…he is dead. You cannot prosecute a dead person.

Morf13
Guest
3 years 1 day ago

Sorry I accidentally deleted the thread, I will get it back on the site and then post the new link here

Mike Morford
Guest
3 years 1 day ago

Here you go, sorry, this is the correct link:
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=106&t=1441

BATMAN
Guest
BATMAN
2 years 11 months ago

Mike…Ross Sullivan is the killer of Paul Stine. The only thing that would rule him out is being overseas that evening or in jail/prison. Nothing points away from him 100% points to him. You have to believe he is the Zodiac or is involved with the Zodiac. There are some things that you can check in his recent past: SANTA CRUZ from 1967-1977 any businesses still open today that may remember Ross Sullivan. This is through old phonebooks or even on the internet. A business stating…I HAVE BEEN IN BUSINESS OVER 40 YEARS.” Any teachers still alive at Riverside College may be a waste of time, but the students would be another key. Glendale High is very remote…he was too young and his mother was not dead yet. Ross spent time all over California. He was also in San Francisco. The best thing to do is to continue to put pressure on that remaining brother. HE IS THE KEY. So is Bonnie Bartlett. Did anyone find out what the father or Tim died from???? Picture of Ross is great. The more people that see it the better it is to get the truth to come out.

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